ice sluts? maybe not, but. . .
Written by Zoe   
Friday, 09 July 2010 21:22

The Penguins announced yesterday that they will be introducing an "Ice Crew" at the CEC.
The pitch sounds innocuous enough, and even suggests that men and women will be given equal consideration:

The Pittsburgh Penguins will introduce a skating “Ice Crew” for the 2010-11 season – a team of energetic girls and guys who will help clean the ice, interact with fans and take part in other promotional activities.

Putting the crew on skates will add a new level of excitement to the Penguins’ game presentation as the team enters a new era at CONSOL Energy Center.

“We’ll be looking for energy, athleticism and passion for the Penguins,” said James Santilli, the team’s vice president of marketing. “We think it’s a great way for fans to get even more involved with Penguins hockey and help make games at CONSOL Energy Center an even greater entertainment experience.”

Okay, whatever. There is a certain level of crap that we will put up with from people who work in marketing.
However, the audition dates for dudes haven't even been scheduled, leading us to believe that they'll probably just add some nonthreatening types on at the end if they can't fill all of roster spots on the crew with girls.

There are NO specific height and weight requirements; however our uniform demands a lean and tone figure. Being physically fit is a part of the athletic, high-energy Pittsburgh Penguins Ice Crew image.

Translation: if you have curves, gtfo. Only skinny people have energy and passion. Here is a list of requirements for the ice crew:

Skating or figure skating technique
Ability to skate in hockey skates
Striking appearance
Physically fit (lean & toned)
Energetic and outgoing personality
Poise
Communication skills
Hockey knowledge

"Hockey knowledge" comes last. But if you do apply, they do want to know if you have modeling experience:

Seriously.

Applicants must wear a midriff bearing top (crop/bra top), yoga/dance pants, HOCKEY skates (if you don’t own them, you will be able to rent hockey skates), jacket and athletic shoes.

Translation: We're probably judging your boobs.

Find a hairstyle that compliments your natural beauty. Hair needs to be styled and worn all down. Make-up should be tasteful - wear makeup that flatters you. Nails should be painted a French manicure or a neutral shade of polish.


wtf on this one. No idea.

If you're interested in these shenanigans, more information is here and here.

We had a long rant written about how ice girls were damaging to the organization's image and spread a negative sexual message to fans, especially young girls who have an interest in hockey.
We also questioned the decision to make a change to the ice crew, seeing as the old ice crew seemed plenty capable and professional, and this just seems gimmicky. I mean, weren't all the Pens games going to be sold out anyway without ice sluts?

Now: Pensblog broke the info that the ice crew will be not a group of "ice girls" like you'd see in other hockey markets, but an extension of the Pens Patrol.
We're familiar with the Pens Patrol girls, who dress (mostly) covered and are ideal footsoldiers for any marketing campaign because they have just the obnoxious, college-type personality required to approach strangers and ask them to do things or accept promotional material.
We totally understand needing high-energy people for the job, athletically capable people who can skate, whatever. Never mind that the old ice crew was mostly random dudes and some women in track jackets, who seemed nice enough.
From a marketing standpoint, though, do you really think were the Pens in danger of losing ticket sales or fan interest because they didn't have a group of loud [Belegost]ers to entertain us during TV timeout?
And the worst part is that no matter how much this anonymous Penguins official that Pensblog spoke to says that these aren't ice sluts, the organization has made it apparent that how you look in a crop top is a very important hiring point. The Penguins organization has instituted a "no fatties" policy, in essence--which seems unusual if they aren't trying to sell sex appeal with this new ice crew, even if they state that sweatsuits will be worn. No matter how much you love the Penguins, female students of Pittsburgh, no matter how enthusiastic you are, no matter how bubbly your personality or willingness to do the work, or capability to do the work in terms of skating ability, physical ability, etc.--you're probably not going to be able to get the job unless you've got a perfectly flat stomach. Sorry, hockey (and hockey operations) aren't for everyone. And let's not forget the weird manicure requirements. Jesus.

Basically, this still perpetuates a negative sexual message. Sure, you have to have an athletic background to play hockey at a high level, and you need like, a modicum of physical capability to clean the ice surface at a hockey arena. None of this has anything to do with your nails, how flat your tummy is when you pull your shirt up, or your makeup and hairstyle. And if they're looking for an enthusiastic, likable fan crew, those things are equally irrelevant.
(Let's not forget that Dustin Byfuglien is obese and he won a Stanley Cup. /burn)
Sorry, Pens organization, we're not buying it.
James Santilli = officially on notice.
The fact remains that this bull[Nogrod] has nothing to do with the on-ice product so we have to wonder why it is so important to a hockey team's vice president of marketing. Sell the game, not some girls who yell at you and throw t-shirts and spend their off-days at the gym so they can fit into that dress and go to Diesel.

It's stupid, and sneaky.
We can't say that enough.
Drop the puck already so we can care about something important.
GO PENS.

anyone interested in writing James Santilli can e-mail This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .  This e-mail was provided to us by a reader and we're not sure if it works or not, but it's the best line to them that we have at the moment.



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Comments (70)Add Comment
I Have Kasparaitis
July 10, 2010
141.151.137.57
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Not impress w/the Pens right now after reading this ... I like how they reach out bc they realized they pissed off a bunch of women fans including me, but they have to know it's not working. Now it's borderline insulting my intelligence by saying "Oh, but there are men, too!" So what? There are men on the ice, & no woman hockey fan really cares about those guys. And why do guys even want Ice Girls? Not like you're going to sleep w/any of them; it's basically being a puck bunny. Just sexually objectifying women in a sports world that lacks women in a lot of departments makes me aggitated.

Sadie
July 10, 2010
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Just sexually objectifying women in a sports world that lacks women in a lot of departments makes me agitated.


This.

I feel your pain, female Pens fans. I live in dread of a similar announcement by the Wings. I can't imagine it happening, but I would've bet against it happening in Pittsburgh as well, so I don't know what to think anymore.

JSt11
July 10, 2010
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Women can't call an athlete hot without getting the ZOMG YOU'RE A PUCK BUNNY WHORE!!!!111!! But men are allowed to ogle at girls on the ice. Go figure.

whatever
July 10, 2010
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Good read. I'm glad you discussed it.

I'm very disappointed in this decision by the Pens. And I agree with you IHaveKasparaitis, they are now insulting our intelligence by saying that men will be involved. As the ladies have said, the men are going to be token additions to fill out the roster. Let's see what their audition requirements are...I doubt they will require midriff-baring shirts and nicely buffed nails.

Just a bad decision all-around.

singingbird812
July 10, 2010
68.57.96.54
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I usually don't post much here because people usually say everything much more eloquently, but I really wanted to say that I completely agree with everything here. It just seems like someone is trying too hard, which is just stupid.

FDeuce
July 10, 2010
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Did anyone call/email anyone in the organization to voice your displeasure with this decision?

blumarine
July 10, 2010
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JSt11:

Women can't call an athlete hot without getting the ZOMG YOU'RE A PUCK BUNNY WHORE!!!!111!! But men are allowed to ogle at girls on the ice. Go figure.


Welcome to the world. *sigh*

petshark
July 10, 2010
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Thanks you for.. just thank you. Well put.

blumarine
July 10, 2010
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Also, Montreal has these chicks come out during intermission to "encourage people to do exercise" and people seriously just laugh at them. Men could not give a shit, they're there for the hockey and the beer. Montreal is big on marketing and they understand that people don't care, so the girls come out less and less. I doubt they'll be there next season.

PensFan2166
July 10, 2010
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Personally I don't care if they have an Ice Crew like other teams have or not, but I can understand why some people (regardless of gender) do have an issue. Those sorts of ice crews do nothing to enhance the game experience - in fact, they typically detract from it for most hockey fans. The early indications are that this will be nothing but strippers on ice, and now saying men can be part of the crew smacks of backtracking aimed at placating women.

PensHockeyNight
July 10, 2010
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I already commented about this in the last cblog buuuuuut I am so displeased with this decision that I will rant about it again.

I am so so so so, for a lack of a better word, ashamed that the Pens organization is doing this. It just takes away from its class and respectability. I will even go as far as to say that it makes a mockery out of the sacred sport that is hockey. I hate it.

I just wish I could understand why this is necessary. The Pens are a talented, exciting, and successful team, capable of producing a sold out arena for the past, what, 5 years?? What possible advantage could they get from sticking a bunch of hoebags on the ice? I'm sure people aren't that pissed that Gonch has bon voyaged. Marketing, please explain. In detail.

Just sexually objectifying women in a sports world that lacks women in a lot of departments makes me aggitated.


Wow. I love you. That is EXACTLY right. Thank you.
Way to marginalize a large chunk of your female fanbase, Pens.

PensHockeyNight
July 10, 2010
70.27.64.59
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Sorry to double post, but Kim I just read your comment to that douchebag on tPB cblog and instantly wanted to call up my BFF to have an extra long bonding sesh. That was kick ass, and I hope that guy never gets laid again.

Pittsburghsteelrocks.com
July 10, 2010
24.3.71.178
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I have a Y chromosome, and I could care less if the ice crew consists of figure skating women and the occasional male, or the older guys we have now who wear those little spikes on the bottom of their shoes made popular by the movie Cool Runnings.
What i am worried about is these new jags coming out in between periods. If this so called ice crew even f*cks with human bowling, or worse, I don't get to see 20 little kids who can't freakin skate to save their lives, and blow every breakaway oppurtunity by falling down, turning the wrong directions, running into their own teammate, or completely fanning on a shot when the goalie already tripped over his own skates two feet to the left of the goal, i'm gonna quit going to the games.
I'm there to see the pens win, period. But on days they lose, well that's the only shit that gets me through the night.

ladyjaye
July 10, 2010
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Well written ladies.

Of course my smart ass wants to know if the men need to have a manicure too? Do they need modeling experience?

Anywho. I've been warned to not venture into cblog today so I thought I'd leave a comment here. Can't say anything additional to what you all have said except that I always liked that we had our regular 'ol ice crew out on the ice cleaning it. Those guys made it seem like an art. And that I appreciate. ;)

Sadie
July 10, 2010
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I've been warned to not venture into cblog today so I thought I'd leave a comment here.


If anyone else is considering heading over there, I'd second that warning. Not worth the mental energy that you'll probably end up expending.

I'll also second what PensHockeyNight said re: Kim's comment there. Thank god Kim responded, because I did not want to have to be the one to deal with that asshole.

ladyjaye
July 10, 2010
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I don't listen well. I posted. ;) Female cbloggers over there gotta battle the puckbunny stuff regularly and now we gotta battle this ice girls stuff. One step forward, two back. Always.

debrisslide
July 10, 2010
24.145.62.243
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Did anyone call/email anyone in the organization to voice your displeasure with this decision?


I'm forwarding my opinions to James Santilli as well as the Penguins official that Pensblog spoke to earlier today.

Nic in Nebraska
July 10, 2010
24.252.26.172
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This was clearly Talbot's idea.... ;)

I'm always one to take a more reserved, wait and see approach, but this sounds too much like where most of the league has gone with this. I hope this is implemented tastefully next season, and if not, that it is removed quickly.

Sorry that this had to add more fuel to the 'puck bunny' fire. I'm not one for stereotyping, so unless you make an actual attempt to sleep with the athletes, you are fine by me. :)

PensFan2166
July 10, 2010
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I'm forwarding my opinions to James Santilli as well as the Penguins official that Pensblog spoke to earlier today.


For what it's worth, I respect the hell out of that. Too many people would just complain and then sit idly by.

OneSmugPug
July 10, 2010
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this commentary is a commendable point, well done.

Sadie
July 10, 2010
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I just wanted to say that I love all you bitches who have commented over at cblog.

MouthGuard
July 10, 2010
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Soooo - I take it this means we're NOT going to be 1) working on our choreographies; 2) getting group 2-for-1 French manis/pedis with a freebie bikini wax thrown in at Miss Swan's; and 3) sticking our perfectly manicured fingers down each other's throats after lunching on rice cakes and pumpkin seeds?

As a comic in all seriousness, I want to commend my bitches and everybody who has commented here for being appropriately repulsed and mostly uber disappointed/confused by this whole "Ice CrewGate" thing. I can say that my initial reaction was and still is "huh?" This doesn't seem like a carefully considered business initiative, especially given that a day earlier, the Pens proudly introduced us to their Penguins Foundation, dedicated to the following objectives:

** Facilitating participation in physical fitness activities
** Creating preventative wellness programs and provide funding for treatment
** Teaching teamwork as an essential life skill
** Encouraging kids to value education

According to David Morehouse, the Penguins Foundation "is the next step in advancing that commitment as we move into an exciting new era in CONSOL Energy Center." Hmmmm - okay. So, I'm confused by this perhaps inadvertent hypocrisy. How can the Penguins organization be committed to the above principles, while also apparently thinking it's totally okay to post a "Wanted: Hooters!" ad on their website? I'm confused! I mean, if this is 2010 - and not 1955 - and if this is the dawning of yet another new era - if we're moving forward, and not backward - how can it possibly be in any way cool to be posting a casting call for jiggly party queens to "perform" at games that are already long since sold-out with way enthusiastic fans who understand and adore the game? Again - confusion!

As a community that has lovingly supported professional sports for decades, Pittsburgh is way too sophisticated and evolved enough NOT to need jiggly party queens for "entertainment" or "mood enhancement" at any time during sporting events. The game itself is your entertainment (you paid for it, remember?) and its players are your performers (duh!), and if you need mood enhancement go swallow some Oxys or drop some acid in the toilet. It's not like Pittsburgh is some laughable hillbilly hockey market like Raleigh or Dallas, where society generally might as well be timewarped in 1955 in a lot of respects...

Without going into specifics: Science has shown us that men and women watch sports for a lot of different reasons (mental, emotional, hormonal), and we are obviously wired differently. It's all good. But what isn't good is getting things twisted and taking everybody for fools. If you go to a hockey game, you're there to watch hockey. Not juggling or jiggling or plate spinning - well, the latter maybe if you're at a KHL game. On the other hand, if you go to a roller derby bout, you know that you will be watching women of all sizes wearing revealing clothing beating the living shit out of each other and skating/competing with the intensity of 500 hockey games combined. Women wearing what they want, how they want, when they want in front of an audience of men, women and children. Men get to see some skin and ferocious competition. Women get to watch women in command of the proceedings from start to finish, embodying characters of their devising on their own terms. And children get to see women kicking serious ass, being exactly who they want to be - fast, slow, pretty, ugly, sexy, goofy, heroic, petulant. All of the above.

Context, man. Context!

I think it can be said that we all have each other's backs. That makes me feel good. I would kick the shit out of anybody, anytime for any of you bitches. In my polka-dotted string bikini, which I am wearing RIGHT NOW. Off to make dinner. xxx MG

Sadie
July 10, 2010
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I was just about to ask when you were going to weigh in on this, MG.

Context, man. Context!

Doesn't that say it all.

I'm totally up for the group 2-for-1 French manis/pedis, btw. Not generally my thing, but I'm pretty sure that a PH day at the spa would be a good time.

I Have Kasparaitis
July 10, 2010
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This was what I was going to post in CBlog, but it's died down there a lot, & I really don't want to deal w/most of them right now, so I'll just post here. It's long so you can skip over it if you like.

***

Raffi Torres refuses to run all those miles to lose those 25 lbs so he can try out for ice girls. What a fucking bitch. I bet with all those tattoos he has, it will definitely deter whoever the professional judges are of the Ice Crew for letting him join. At least his hair can be worn down and compliments his face. Has anyone seen the state of his nails? What a disaster! I just really hope that he keeps a healthy toned body even if the Pens organization is giving out iffy messages about what the people need to wear and look like. And he needs to look this way because society tells him women will never be interested in his personality or skills. Glad he married so early because his Dad would start up again about how not being married is a disgrace to his family & that he'll be an old hag. He really looks like he might actually start providing something to the games by going out there scantily-clad just to shovel some snow off the ice. Those older guys clearly weren’t doing it right because their asses weren’t round enough to give the drunk fans who scream “Shoot!” an erection. Heaven forbid, women fans not like this because the Sports world in general is male-dominated and all input including those shitty pink jerseys, female-directed websites on how the sport is played, and the term “puck bunny” tossed careless at any woman who shows any sign of finding a man attractive who happens to be in a sport we love, has a direct effect on us that we cannot fix over night. It also starts teaching the younger children that your value is directly linked to your gender. Hockey players are men who are strong, hard-working, fast, skilled, intelligent in their work, but the women are in the tight-fitting spandex cleaning up after the men, bending over shoveling snow, providing zero value to what is going on in the game. I bet Raffi Torres would be pissed to realize his Ice Girl job may give him pay, but all those old creepy fucks watching them sure does make it worth it. I mean the Pens Patrol did the t-shirt tossing and stuff during intermission, but I guess they weren’t doing enough either. And I bet if Raffi Torres joined the Pens organization, he would be so excited that they were telling all the fans that because it has guys on the Ice Crew it’s like totally equal and like that they aren’t pissing on our heels & hockey skates and calling it rain because it clearly isn’t a movement to attract a certain type of men to the arena.

Also, how isn’t the conditioning and fortitude that hockey players have brought onto themselves objectification from men? The male-dominated world wants stronger, faster, more enduring players to watch. That’s why they are so fit in their specified sport. Women weren’t pointing at them and saying “Oh, they don’t have enough muscle or power to play.” No, it was the men involved in the League that noticed that the bigger the player was the less off the game he was put and has started conditioning at increasingly younger ages. It may not be the sexual objectifying that women are receiving from the same men and more of them, but the men are doing the objectifying in this situation.

Women can’t even break into the sports world with tons of issues about our state-of-mind. Hell, we can’t even get equal pay. Look at all the women in the NHL. Name one woman w/in this organization that is heavily involved in day-to-day operations. Ray Shero is a GM who never played professional hockey, yet he has his job and is frequently complimented on his willingness to win. Women who have played hockey cannot break the barrier set-up by patriarchal society in even hockey operations. Double fucking standard in everything.

loco4pens
July 10, 2010
98.209.217.75
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Icegirlsgate has prompted me to comment for the very first time, even though I read what you bitches write every day. I am not very articulate, but MouthGuard has said exactly what I couldn't put into words. The Penguins organization is (was) such a class act. I wonder how Mario feels about all this - especially with having three daughters.

PensHockeyNight
July 10, 2010
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It would be awesome if you guys could put up the email of someone Pens-related we can direct our feedback to, if that's at all possible!

punkrawkpenguin
July 10, 2010
76.29.154.143
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I had hoped the Pens wouldn't one day reach this level. I begged and prayed it wouldn't happen. If these chicks do dances in the stands and on the ice during intermission like other teams, I fucking quit! Go clean the ice in your half shirt and mini skirt. I hope you impale yourself on the shovel.

meecrofilm
July 10, 2010
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I was behind this post, then I saw that you dissed Diesel at the very end.

I'm leaving this blog forever.

debrisslide
July 10, 2010
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Matt we were never friends. There is some hope for reconciliation if you can introduce me to this troupe of ice-cleaning Albus Dumbledores though.

Ava
July 10, 2010
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Sigh. Why exactly the Pen's organization felt this was necessary is beyond me. Ice hoes are tackier than themed weddings, and for an organization known for being extremely family-friendly this seems soo out of place. My cousin was a dancer for the Toronto Raptors a few years back, and I admit I never really thought anything of it. They danced around in basically bikinis but it just seemed like part of the experience of going to a basketball game, so I get those who argue that it wouldn't really detract from anything. However, not having to resort to ice girls to bring in people (but plz who the hell would buy a hockey ticket just to see 18 yr olds wear skimpy clothes? That’s what strip clubs are for people)should be a thing of pride for an organization. They should be proud that the product they are putting on the Ice does not need a good dosage of T&A to sell. Hopefully the Pen's will see that by establishing an 'ice crew' they are doing nothing but marginalizing a good chunk of their audience. From a business standpoint, nothing can be gained by adding ice girls, so really what the hell is the point?

Ice Girls= anchovies on pizza. Not a huge deal if they’re there, but tastes soo much better without them.

PensHockeyNight
July 11, 2010
174.89.108.39
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Wowza, just realized you chicks DID give out an email in your post. One step ahead of me always.
Resume discussion while I go pull head out of arse. Love you guys.

debrisslide
July 11, 2010
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Wowza, just realized you chicks DID give out an email in your post. One step ahead of me always.
Resume discussion while I go pull head out of arse. Love you guys.


I did that at your prompting! haha

MouthGuard
July 11, 2010
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@Sadie/Utter Frivolity: Girfren, I am ALL. ABOUT. THE MANIS/PEDIS. Just not French. I love color, which is one of the many issues I have with Ice CrewGate. But anyway... If we're doing PH 2-for-1's, here's my color etiquette guide:

HANDS, 'HO:

Pearl of Wisdom - part of OPI's "Hong Kong" collection - fabo pearlescent shimmery!
See Ya Later, Sailor! - limited edition OPI - wearing it now! baby blue like Pens 3rd jerseys w/shimmer
Fireflies - just like a firefly - green/yellow/vermillion
And This Little Piggy = a hotter shade of pink
Mermaid - my favorite, 'cause I'm a Pisces - green/silver shit

TOES, BITCH:

I'm Not Really A Waitress - Ha Ha HAAAAA
Absolutely Alice - OPI's "Alice in Wonderland" collection - SICK METALLIC BLUE - JUST FUCKING SICK
You're A Pisa Work - Some red bullshit to complement yer Candies
Lincoln Park After Dark - serious mofo blue
We'll Always Have Paris - big hair for your feet - trust

Gotta go for those soft colors for your hands, and ridiculous bold bullshit chickenhead colors for your toes. I'm already booked for a "Moji-Toe" pedi/callous treatment next month, so - it's a date, bitches!

Again - today's posts are all HALL OF FAME as far as I'm concerned. Keep it up. And remember: Apollo did not forsake Cassandra for nothing. He couldn't bring himself to strip away her ability to predict the future, her talent or her beauty just because she rejected his advances. He loved her so much he couldn't destroy her THAT much. Instead, he only rendered it such that whenever she predicted anything - um, for example, THE TROJAN HORSE - nobody would believe her. She was deemed a crazy bitch 4EVA. Hmmm - relate much? But her legacy lives on. Just like my boyfriend, Euripides. You crazy Greek ho. I love you. And THANK YOU for kicking Socrates' boring, flabby ass. (yes - that was an excerpt from my soon-to-be-published "Hooked On Classics" opus)

SO HAPPY I'm not Jimmy Santilli right now... ;)

meecrofilm
July 11, 2010
74.109.245.198
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There is some hope for reconciliation if you can introduce me to this troupe of ice-cleaning Albus Dumbledores though.


You get a bunch of old dudes, give them long fake beards (preferably they grow their own), along with a wizards' hat and robe combination, the latter of which say "Team Dumbledore" on the back. And during each stoppage there's a different random guy in each group who comes out and does nothing but wave a fake wand around at the others doing work.

audiecakes
July 11, 2010
72.89.176.156
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HELLP! This issue has started a nasty ongoing argument between me and a male I'm close to...can anyone back me up?

This is how I feel: (And background info, I've had body issues pretty much all my life.) The Pens organization doing this really disappoints me because as a female fan, this is alienating. It kinda hurts my feelings.
My reasoning here is that this is, in a way, the Pens organization saying, "This is our female ideal. This is the kind of woman we want representing the Penguins."
Well, I represent the Penguins too, as a fan, and I do not fit this ideal. Do I not belong?

Can anyone relate to this? I'm being told I'm being ridiculous and having so many inane arguments thrown at me I can't even duck out of their way fast enough.

Thanks!

Audrey

tangerbabii58
July 11, 2010
96.236.163.229
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This "Ice Crew" is a terrible idea. We don't need sluts skating around during time outs, you're right. The guys who always cleaned the ice were perfectly ok and professional. I'm a 16yr old girl and I'm not at the game to see sluts 'clean' the ice. Not just me, but everyone is there to see the Pens play hockey, cheer, and have a good time. Obviously with all the consecutive sold out games, there will be NO problem with ticket sales especially in the new arena, so we don't need these chicks. The Steelers are the only team in the NFL who don't have cheerleaders because it's just not what Pittsburgh is about. It's not necessary to have girls prancing around in tiny outfits during games. Ugh, it's just so disappointing the Penguins organization would do something like this. I lost a little respect for the organization (not the players, just whoever decided to have this ice crew).

Cookiesworld
July 11, 2010
70.66.87.56
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How about using social networking for the power of good?
There are currently 140 comments on this story on the official penguins facebook page; I'm sure someone at the organization actually reads all the comments. How's about we flood it with some PH-style commentary?
http://www.facebook.com/pghpenguins#!

Sadie
July 11, 2010
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omg Albus Dumbledore ice crew needs to happen. Probably the only positive thing to come out of that clusterfuck of a cblog.

@MG - Please tell me you're a classics major. Personally I did everything I could to avoid anything to do with Athens or Rome in college, but it seems like classics majors are weirdly overrepresented in my (obviously extremely nerdy) social circles.

I'm such a fucking hippie, French manicures are about as bold as I get. In high school I had a fantastic nail polish collection, but of late when I get manicures I get as close to no polish as possible, and I'm still distracted by my shiny nails for a week afterward. But I can probably step out a bit and get behind Fireflies and Lincoln Park After Dark.

katepghfan
July 12, 2010
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great commentary, Kim and Zoe - and great comments from everyone else - I appreciate it

When I first read about this the other day, my only thoughts were "stupid and unnecessary, but, eh, probably innocuous enough." I must admit though, as I read those "requirements" and the extra information about dress and nails (seriously? - we are going to see their manicures from our seats?); I was not happy.

I guess the thing is, which the Penguins organization should know and appreciate, the percentage of female fans in hockey is larger than in any other sport (from what I've read...and from what I've seen in 20+ years of following the sport). The female fan base is dedicated and knowledgable. Do we appreciate the fact that there are some really good-looking, well-built men playing the sport? Yes, of course. But that is not why I love hockey so much, why I prefer it to any other sport, why I SPEND SO MUCH MONEY (take note, members of the Pens organization) going to games and buying merchandise. That is not why I have been some form of season ticketholder for almost 20 years, even as it has cost me more and given me less in terms of perks as the team has gotten more popular.

I guess, ultimately, I am simply disappointed in the Penguins organization for this ridiculous, and totally UNNECESSARY marketing tool. Why insult the intelligence of something like 50% of your dedicated fan base?

What was wrong with the way things were being done, anyway?

Does some marketing idiot really really think this is a good idea?

I am not on FB, but, I wish you luck with really going after the Pens on this idea on FB. Make us proud.

crmzak
July 12, 2010
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Wait. It's a grill AND a cooler? I'm confused.

snickerdoodles
July 12, 2010
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What will the next requirement be? How well you can dance on a pole?

MouthGuard
July 13, 2010
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Love letter from me to everybody who has bothered to blurt out anything about Ice CrewGate over the course of the past week: Keep yelling. People will listen. They won't have a choice! WHAT'S SO FUNNY 'BOUT Peace Love & Understanding????

@Sadie/UtterFrivol: I am a classic muffin from yesteryear. Think Sally O'Malley meets Stevie Nicks morphed with Ann Wilson and Chrissie Hynde. As Fernando used to say: "It's more important to look good than to feel good."

Indeed! ;)

Pens Brass will be running for the hills by the time my registered envelope re Ice Crew reaches them. MG kneels at the altar of stuffs such as paper, pens and foreva stamps. Fear not. We shall prevail. GoDAMMIT. MouthWash! Fuck you and your valentines to Davidson and lung-scan era Shero. Where's numero 4, tabarnacle de ciboir? Greschner, fuckers. Greschner.

Steve McKennaD
July 13, 2010
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I'll get flamed for saying this but... I'm sure the same women on here bitching about a few women skating around with shovels, are the same ones that have multiple posters of Sid and Tanger hanging on their walls, sans full game gear.

Should I be pissed because my ability to play hockey is far below the expectations of the Pittsburgh Penguins, let alone the fact that my 18 yr. old body has long ago left me.

Talk about your double standards.

I love reading you gals' perspective on the Pens, but I think you're a little overreacting on this one.

debrisslide
July 13, 2010
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I'll get flamed for saying this but... I'm sure the same women on here bitching about a few women skating around with shovels, are the same ones that have multiple posters of Sid and Tanger hanging on their walls, sans full game gear.

Should I be pissed because my ability to play hockey is far below the expectations of the Pittsburgh Penguins, let alone the fact that my 18 yr. old body has long ago left me.

Talk about your double standards.

I love reading you gals' perspective on the Pens, but I think you're a little overreacting on this one.


Nope. Just nope. The comments you're reading come from mothers, mature women, and intelligent, self-aware, educated girls in college or with careers, for the most part. We have better things in our lives than girly posters on our walls. If you judge us in that manner, then you're really missing out on a bigger picture of what female hockey fans are all about, and that's just unfortunate for you.

snickerdoodles
July 13, 2010
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Steve McKennaD, in case you missed the point, people are bitching about the fact that the few women skating around with shovels as you put it have to have french manicures or neutral nails, look good in a crop top and yoga pants, and have modeling experience just to skate around with a shovel. Why should how you look (for the women applicants) be the main requirement for the job?

Sadie
July 13, 2010
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@Steve McKennaD - Gotta give you some credit for commenting here rather than just sticking to blogs where you know you'd get more support for your opinion.

I will not deny that I have spent an embarrassing amount of time staring at this picture, but I'm not sure why that would make any of my concerns less valid.

I've quoted this once before, but I think I Have Kasparaitis summed it up really well in the first comment: "Just sexually objectifying women in a sports world that lacks women in a lot of departments makes me agitated."

The comment snickerdoodles makes right above also cuts to the point. The fact that hockey players typically look pretty good in a towel as a result of the requirement that they be in top physical condition to play their sport is in no way equivalent to women having to audition for a job shoveling ice in a "midriff bearing top (crop/bra top)", with further guidance for hair, makeup, and nails.

Based on your comment regarding your own physical appearance, I take it that you believe the criticisms women have made are based primarily on jealousy. I would like to be clear: I do not believe that there is something inherently wrong about women being hot and showing off their gorgeous bodies. As MouthGuard said above: "Context, man. Context!"

I don't think that the response here has been an overreaction. The decision by Pens marketing to formulate these requirements--not to mention their apparent belief that such a move would be easily accepted by their female fans--is significant. The aggregate of the many decisions like this that are made by organizations every day is the society we live in. This just happens to be one instance where we have at least a hope of making our voices heard.

In response to Zoë's comment above: I must admit that my husband and I do have a full-size (fully clothed) picture of Nick Lidstrom on our living room wall. But I also graduated from the top law school in the country, have worked as a lobbyist and organizer, and am generally well aware of the huge fucking problems in the world that we should all spend our time trying to solve. Personally, I find it really depressing to learn how many people think that things like this *don't* matter and aren't worthy of our time or energy.

Sadie
July 13, 2010
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P.S. Can we maybe have a Blingee post sometime soon? I need some sparkly shit to cheer me up.

MouthGuard
July 14, 2010
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Hmmmm - do you suppose the Sharks might have the last guffaw, after all? They let Nabby go and Seto is still lookin', but perhaps they have learned a little something from the Pens' Ice CrewGate fiasco and ensuing "crisis management" drama. Let us compare and contrast:

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/new...L|SJS|home

Amazing, eh? Sample (appropriate) gig requirements: Applicants must pass the California required background check. We are looking for individuals that are able to work with people of all ages, learn new skills quickly and can react quickly in any situation... Gig descrip: The Tank Patrol is responsible for on-ice intermission games and break promotions in the seating area at HP Pavilion. The Tank Patrol will also go out in the public at other Sharks events to bring the ultimate guest experience to that location.

I'm guessing that other than being forced to Dew bong every now and then, these happy shills can at least look forward to coming to a cheerful work environment - i.e., interacting with fans and NOT BEING HUMILIATED ON THE JOB BECAUSE THEY'RE FORCED TO WEAR HOOTERS HAND-ME-DOWNS AND SPEND THEIR ROCK-HARD, FIRM & TONED CASH ON SPHINCTER BLEACHINGS. It doesn't look like they'll ever have to worry about BEING FIRED because they wore I'm Not Really A Waitress on their nails or - OMG - their hair wasn't "styled." Whatever the fuck THAT means. I still haven't decided if Ice CrewGate is mostly a Pens gaffe or if it's a Consol agenda. Methinks it's a disconcerting collusion between both camps. If they want to spice things up in the "new era" at the new venue, how about coming up with a new goal celebration song? Irony: Gary Glitter is a convicted pedophile. And at least 12 teams in the League have the exact same goal celebration song. LAME. How about "Hitler Rap"? I'm making a list and motherfucking checking it twice!!!!

The Sharks have never had jiggly party queens at intermission, and I have to admit that along with the awesome old guy ushers, it's one of the few aspects I enjoy about going to a game at the HP. It's all about the hockey. And the vomit enchaladas. And Gary Glitter after a goal. Sigh.

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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All valid concerns from a point of view with which I am incapable of empathizing, but more than willing to understand.

My only question is why is it ok to categorize these girls as "sluts" or "skanks" or "hoebags"? They're women too. Or, are they not worthy of the same kind of treatment as a human because they might actually enjoy being on an ice crew and don't feel as though they're being objectified?

The outfits they wear, as well as their hair, makeup, and nails is no more "slutty" than what an olympic figure skater wears and definitely more modest than the incredibly functional yet significantly more revealing outfits worn by professional beach volleyball players.

Now I know these olympic-caliber athletes are doing more than scooping snow off the ice and working as cheerleaders to please the crowd, but to put these women down, calling them horrible names which assume terrible things about their character is no better than looking down on a stay-at-home mom because she chooses to raise children.

Sadie
July 14, 2010
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@J.J. - Personally, I find the language you cite distasteful and haven't used it in this discussion, but I think that you'll find that most of the people who have used that language are not referring to the individual women who would be involved. For instance, in one comment above Ava uses the phrase "ice hoes" and then refers to her cousin who's a dancer for the Toronto Raptors. Are we to infer that she thinks her cousin is a whore? Or is it more likely that she is using "ice hoes" as a description of the position, which is instead a criticism of those people (most likely men) who created it?

No one is assuming anything about the characters of these women (who in this case have yet to even audition). And I would be shocked if people here had an issue with girls being "sluts" in the traditional sense of the word.

Not that it matters, but figure skaters aren't a very good comparison here. Although it's sometimes hard to believe that the ISU has rules about modesty amongst all the illusion mesh, even if female figure skaters were allowed to wear bikinis on the ice, that would be their choice. They can also choose to dress more modestly if they prefer (although you're not going to see long skirts outside of ice dancing, given the difficulty of doing jumps and spins dressed that way - particularly sit spins!).

Beach volleyball is more revealing, but not only is their uniform far more functional, as you point out, but there's also greater equity there. Many men don't wear shirts when they have the choice, although they're sadly forced to in events like the Olympics (there is admittedly not much of a point to that last link; I'm just a particular fan of the picture).

MouthGuard
July 14, 2010
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@J.J. - I think abject smug sarcasm has somewhat colored the Ice CrewGate issue and maybe comments are being misconstrued as attacks on anonymous female characters. I'm guilty as charged. When I'm disappointed, my face shrivels up like an overly ripened passion fruit and I pout something terrible. Males and females who are not at all okay with ICG are reacting/dealing in different and valid ways. I apologize if I have ever characterized Ice Crew applicants as skanks; rest assured that I only meant to tag them as stupid bimbos who apparently DON'T MIND DRESSING/ACTING LIKE SKANKS and subsequently being referred to as skanky.

For me, the key issue here is that this is HOCKEY. Not Starlight Express or Shrek on Ice. Why is it necessary to have random bullshit - whether it's people in a giant hamster ball on the ice, t-shirt catapults or jiggly dance numbers - going on between periods? I don't get it. Fans are frantically getting food, beverages or taking a bathroom break, anyway. On the other hand, spectacle is part of figure skating (always has been), so it's okay if skaters want to wear ridiculous outfits as Sadie perfectly pointed out. Hot weather is part of the beach, so it's therefore part of beach volleyball; accordingly, it's okay if they want to risk nipple slips and nutsack peeps while going for those kills. Context. It's all about context.

The Pens should be focusing on more substantive, forward-thinking ways to build on their already solid hockey cred/brand as they usher in a new era at Consol although I don't think it's overly necessary for them to be worried about how to change things up right now... It's not as if the franchise is in trouble, or am I missing something? Are they broken/beat up? What are they trying to prove with an Ice Crew? Right now, they have tarnished/twisted things up image-wise. It looks like they're following idiot clubs like the Thrashers (???) - or perhaps thought that the 'Hawks won the Cup this year 'cause of their 'zazzier PR - instead of forging their own way and leading by example. Who likes a follower? Intrinsically, teams obviously have to follow direction, but they have to set their own course.

It's just too fucking stupid. Neither fun nor funny.

@Sadie - Meant to ask if you could possibly clarify/explain what's up with Lidstrom's belly button in that photo? Is that a treasure trail happening or some Swedish conifer deal growing out of his pants?

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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rest assured that I only meant to tag them as stupid bimbos who apparently DON'T MIND DRESSING/ACTING LIKE SKANKS and subsequently being referred to as skanky.


The only difference between ice girls and roller derby girls is the violence. Where does context come into this? People who compete in roller derby would probably be better served to wear more modest and athletic clothing. The ice girls wear what they want, how they want, when they want, just when they "want" to be paid for doing so. A roller derby girl who wears a very short skirt is making the same choice as an ice girl who goes out wearing yoga pants and revealing her midriff. Why is one contextually showing girl power while the other is acting like a skank? If the ice girl isn't comfortable with the uniform for the job, she's more than welcome (and very likely able to) find different employment.

As far as the necessity of any entertainment at the arena other than hockey, well it's an entire package. I agree that ice girls probably aren't necessary. If my team added them to their arena, I would probably find no more enjoyment. To tell the truth, my one experience with ice girls took away from my arena-going experience. I was at Wrigley for the Winter Classic between Detroit and Chicago where it was bitterly cold and the Blackhawks had their ice girls out in their outfits and those girls looked miserable. I felt sorry for them. But, calling it an unnecessary attempt at entertainment is a slippery slope that basically leads to the concept of why there's a jumbotron, concessions, or even music at the arena if they're not absolutely crucial to the hockey game.

not only is their uniform far more functional, as you point out, but there's also greater equity there.


What does equity have to do with it? It's been pretty well established in previous comments that even intelligent women who are adequately repulsed by the idea of ice girls find a certain eye-candy enjoyment of watching the male players on the ice. I guess with ice girls out there, there would actually be equity that doesn't exist in an NHL arena right now.

MouthGuard
July 14, 2010
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The only difference between ice girls and roller derby girls is the violence... People who compete in roller derby would probably be better served to wear more modest and athletic clothing... A roller derby girl who wears a very short skirt is making the same choice as an ice girl who goes out wearing yoga pants and revealing her midriff.


Short track roller derby girls are athletes and their teams are entirely not-for-profit. They compete for free and their bouts are for entertainment purposes only. Part of Derby's history/legacy involves creating a persona for yourself as a quirky/distinctive member of your team. This persona is entirely of your own devising - meaning NOBODY CAN TELL YOU HOW TO DRESS/STYLE YOUR HAIR/DO YOUR NAILS. If you want to skate in a body cast, it's perfectly fine and likely even cooler because you'll stand out even more. You also have a choice as to whether or not you want to be a thug. Nobody is telling derby girls how to represent/characterize themselves on the track, and they all wear athletic clothing and protective gear that is sometimes embellished and sometimes not. Again - it's entirely up to them. People who like derby develop affinities for certain characters on the teams, and cheer them on in good fun, kind of like how it works with wrestling. Finally, derby girls are also involved in community outreach initiatives to teach little girls how to skate ("Skater Tots", for example).

The ice girls wear what they want, how they want, when they want, just when they "want" to be paid for doing so.


Ice Crew girls are considered/hired according to specific appearance criteria, and if they are hired they must then wear team-issued "uniforms" and are expected to honor those same specific appearance guidelines if they want to keep their jobs. It is their choice if they want to apply for or keep a job such as this one, but make no mistake: They are told what to look like and the sugar coated message is that their jobs pivot around their appearance. Period. So they really don't get to wear what they want, on their own terms.

But, calling it an unnecessary attempt at entertainment is a slippery slope that basically leads to the concept of why there's a jumbotron, concessions, or even music at the arena if they're not absolutely crucial to the hockey game.


Jumbotrons provide closer looks at hockey plays and communicate information regarding other hockey games around the league. They also publicize shout-outs to team/venue sponsors and patrons. As well as allowing you to laugh at especially stupid or douchey-looking people in the audience. Very necessary.

Concessions provide hideous arena foodstuffs and overpriced refreshments to starving, thirsty and/or bored fans. Very necessary.

Music = Organ between-play embellishments which is part of hockey's amazing history. Very very necessary. Non-organ music embellishments evolved largely because of TV timeouts; I'm sure franchises would prefer to not play recorded music because of royalty overhead... It's okay but I wouldn't call it overly necessary. I think that goal horns are frankly more entertaining than celebration songs, but that's just me.

Women, dancers, monkeys and plate spinners are not like jumbotrons, hot dog carts or Nugent's "Stranglehold." Women are not hockey game entertainment. They're fans.

Sadie
July 14, 2010
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I guess with ice girls out there, there would actually be equity that doesn't exist in an NHL arena right now.


If you actually believe this, then I'm pretty sure that you either can't or won't understand what many of us have been saying, and there's probably little point in repeating it.

I can only speak for myself on this particular point, but when I'm watching hockey, I'm watching HOCKEY. I'm watching the game. If I feel a thrill, it's because someone just made a perfect pass or wicked wrist shot. I appreciate that Nick Lidstrom has seen it fit to provide me with quality fapping material, but when I'm watching a game, I'm appreciating his skill, not picturing him naked. I can't speak for how other women experience hockey, but one way or the other, the men are there for their ability, not for the purpose of being eye candy. This is decidedly not true of ice girls.

In beach volleyball both men and women are playing a sport, and both men and women are half naked. If the women weren't playing a sport, or if the men weren't half naked, then I would likely question what the fuck was going on there.

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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If you actually believe this, then I'm pretty sure that you either can't or won't understand what many of us have been saying, and there's probably little point in repeating it.


Of course I don't believe that because I don't particularly care for the concept of "eye candy equity". I too go to hockey games to watch hockey. The outfits in beach volleyball aren't acceptable because the women and men are just about equally as exposed to people who want to ogle them as much as they want to watch them play the sport, they're acceptable because it's beach attire that keeps them cool and allows them to move.

Ice Crew girls are considered/hired according to specific appearance criteria, and if they are hired they must then wear team-issued "uniforms" and are expected to honor those same specific appearance guidelines if they want to keep their jobs. It is their choice if they want to apply for or keep a job such as this one, but make no mistake: They are told what to look like and the sugar coated message is that their jobs pivot around their appearance. Period. So they really don't get to wear what they want, on their own terms.


When I was 16, I got a job at McDonalds. I was told in no unspecific terms that facial hair and visible piercings other than in the ear were strictly forbidden. Furthermore, I was to wear to same store-issued uniform every day to work as a condition of my continued employment there. Sure, "sexy" wasn't part of the requirement descriptions (thank goodness), but I also was not hired to be an entertainer.

their bouts are for entertainment purposes only


Just like an ice girl's job is for entertainment purposes only. If they choose to be sexy (whether it's a condition of employment or not, since employment is voluntary just like participating in roller derby), it does not make a girl a skank or a slut.


I think that goal horns are frankly more entertaining than celebration songs, but that's just me.


That's exactly what my point boils down to. A way of alerting people when a goal has been scored is necessary to a hockey game, the means in which a particular arena chooses to go about that is part of the intrinsic entertainment one expects when they go to a hockey arena. The entire concept of having ice girls is an offshoot of that. They need people to clean the ice or entertain the clientele who don't have to go to the bathroom or want to get another hot dog during breaks. The way they choose to do that is a tie in to what's going to be the most overall entertaining way to do it for the fanbase.

I get that the concept of ice girls is offensive to you, but to say that they're unnecessary from any kind of standpoint is to call into question the necessity of anything that's supposed to entertain the crowd. I'd rather deal with the idea that you're offended by them as skanks than the idea that your utilitarian sensibilities are offended by an unnecessary attempt at entertainment at an entertainment venue.

Speaking of which, why is it ok to call them skanks again?

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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I'm sorry, I did want to respond to this:

think that you'll find that most of the people who have used that language are not referring to the individual women who would be involved. For instance, in one comment above Ava uses the phrase "ice hoes" and then refers to her cousin who's a dancer for the Toronto Raptors. Are we to infer that she thinks her cousin is a whore? Or is it more likely that she is using "ice hoes" as a description of the position, which is instead a criticism of those people (most likely men) who created it?


I have to disagree that it can be a criticism of the people who created the position rather than the people who will fill it. I don't want to call Ava's cousin a ho any more than she probably wants to, but I'm having trouble building a way to see how that hasn't been done.

If somebody asks me to tell them a little about myself and I say "oh, well I'm an apprentice dick-tickler", then I don't honestly expect that person to instantly think of what a terrible person my boss must be for making me carry that title without making any kind of a value judgment on what kind of person I am for taking a job with such a title.

MouthGuard
July 14, 2010
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I get that the concept of ice girls is offensive to you, but to say that they're unnecessary from any kind of standpoint is to call into question the necessity of anything that's supposed to entertain the crowd.


It's 2010. If people want to watch provactively-dressed girls bending over in public as part of a "show", there are places for them to watch that happen and it's puzzling/disappointing that some people think a hockey game - a game, for one, and a game without a history of incorporating party girls into its proceedings, for another - is the perfect avenue for that. When somebody conditionally accepts jobs of this ilk, he/she is agreeing that it's okay to have a job that requires you to style your hair a certain way and to wear revealing clothing as was outlined in the IC job description. If you agree to a skanky look at work, you ARE a skank and that is both unfortunate and sucky. This is not about looking "professional" - this is about being considered sufficiently "good" looking for your job, according to Employer A, B or C. Whatever the fuck THAT means. Body types and looks run the gamut and in 2010, it's just not cool to tell people how their bodies/looks have to be to go to work regardless of whether or not they are fluff "entertainers" at a game/event.

their bouts are for entertainment purposes only
Yes - they ARE the stars of the show at a derby bout. They are playing the game. They aren't providing fluff between periods at a hockey game. Derby girls are their own game AND show, not the fluff entertainment. Derby is both a show and a game.

If they choose to be sexy (whether it's a condition of employment or not, since employment is voluntary just like participating in roller derby), it does not make a girl a skank or a slut.
True, but this is 2010 and women must map out what sexy means on their own terms. Sexy today is different from sexy in 1975. Or 1850. And do you really want to avail yourself for a job that "requires" you to be sexy? Really? Wouldn't that make you a stripper? Which is decidedly skanky and not at all sexy?

The concept of the Ice Crew is offensive to me, for sure, but again - what is really disappointing is the fact that a job like this is seriously being marketed as relevant and necessary within the hockey milieu in 2010. It's beyond "voluntary employment" or "entertainment". Rather, it's where our heads are at, don't you think? Up our asses? In the clouds? Doesn't that make you think? What is this really saying about the Penguins, Consol, the city, the sport, the fans?

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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I think we're at a pretty good understanding here. I just don't agree with the concept that ice girls are inherently skanky, slutty, or ho...ey(?)

Yes, it is 2010 and we've come a long way. But, unless human nature drastically changes soon, there are always going to be jobs for people whose talents include math, chemistry, or semantics and there are always going to be jobs for people whose talents include being pretty.

While I still want to completely agree that I think this particular marketing gimmick a mistake and a miscalculation, I like ice girls more closely to the women who play Disney Princesses at theme parks more than the women who play Disney Princesses at bachelor parties (or even Hooters waitresses who shamelessly flirt and overtly use their sexuality combined with personality tricks designed to play to outright objectification fantasies in order to get more tips)

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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*I LIKEN ice girls.

typo

MouthGuard
July 14, 2010
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(or even Hooters waitresses who shamelessly flirt and overtly use their sexuality combined with personality tricks designed to play to outright objectification fantasies in order to get more tips)


Funny, that. Improper Tip Pooling (Lab. Code §§ 350 et seq.)??? Say it ain't so!

PARTRIDGE, ET AL. v. HOTT WINGS, INC.; DUBLIN WINGS, INC. dba HOOTERS OF DUBLIN, et al.

http://static.cbslocal.com/sta...plaint.pdf

Apparently, Hooters girls can't even trust their bosses to keep their greasy fingers the fuck out of their tip jars. What is this world coming to? Wonder what Jim Santilli thinks…

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
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I don't know what I'm supposed to take away from that other than a lesser respect for the people who run Hooters restaurants. I still don't consider ice girls/cheerleaders to be on the same level of Hooters waitresses.

Cappy
July 14, 2010
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I hate to beat a dead horse and jump in on a discussion that for all intents and purposes is just running in circles, but here I go anyway.

For me it boils down to the fact that thus far, no restricting guidelines have been laid out for the men. Which is unacceptable. I also think that any restriction more than skating ability and a nice smile is ridiculous, but if we're going all out it better be tit for tat and not all full of double standards.

I'm also surprised that I haven't heard anything about the children! I couldn't think of a better way to word that sentence. I have a bunch of little girl cousins. They watch hockey. I don't want them thinking that exposing their navels is the only way for them to be involved in hockey. To me this sends the message of "Sure, you can join in on the fun. Here's you're cheerleader uniform."

That's my bit. Probably made less sense typed out than it did in my head, but I'm not one for the verbalizing and pontificating.

debrisslide
July 14, 2010
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I'm really surprised that JJ (and some of the rest of ya'll) still aren't grasping the point of this post. The Pittsburgh Penguins organization is basing its hiring of a fan crew on ridiculous requirements, based almost entirely on mainstream sex appeal, yet is trying to dress it up as an "ice crew" that will grant equal treatment to all applicants, and not sell sex as entertainment. It's their hypocrisy and dancing around the issue. And their sneaky attempt to define "attractive women" and "acceptable ways for female fans to be involved in hockey." I'm not saying that there aren't women who would enjoy being involved in hockey in this way, or that they should hire awful ugly people, or that sex doesn't sell--just that, as a female human being, I consider this somewhat alienating, and irrelevant to the on-ice product. Fucking Christ people.

In regards to derogatory words, we at PH are foul-mouthed as a rule. We refer to ourselves as bitches. Basically any woman can be called a "slut." It can be both a generic term, or a term of endearment. Additionally, we re-term the "ice girl" position "ice slut" in order to describe the position/hiring practice behind that position--not the girl herself.

Sorry, folks. This debate is ridic. I've yet to hear a good reason why I should be like "YES PITTSBURGH PENGUINS ORGANIZATION I WANT A BUNCH OF TANNED SALON-STYLED WOMEN TRYING TO PUMP ME UP DURING TV TIMEOUT." Because I don't. That's not my idea of how women (or men, for that matter) should be involved in hockey. I'm not telling the Pens not to hire pretty people, I'm telling them to hire anyone who can get the job done. Some of these people may be pretty. But the "only people with flat stomachs apply" rule is fucking bullshit and anyone who tells me otherwise is going to get punched.

As for male eye candy in hockey: sure some guys are cute. So are a lot of female athletes. Also, some aren't. In fact a lot of them aren't. In fact, having a pretty face and a hot body really doesn't necessarily apply to athleticism. Have you seen Ovechkin with his shirt off? Man's got some serious love handles and lumps in weird places--obviously hasn't affected his performance. And hockey players aren't hired based on how they look. And just because we're women doesn't mean we like hockey because of men. In fact some of PH's regular readers are lesbians or bisexual. So, you know, fuck off about that too.

IN SHORT: I have my guns, I'm sticking to them.

This is getting so absurd. Can you tell how pissed I am? I'm pissed. I just want to watch hockey.

MouthGuard
July 14, 2010
12.239.217.98
Votes: +0
...

Have you seen Ovechkin with his shirt off?


Thanks for that. You spoiled my appetite. ;)

Kimberlass
July 14, 2010
174.141.143.59
Votes: +0
...

Awww, Zoe beat me to it.

Anyway, accept my comment as non-influenced by Zoe's, because I haven't read hers yet and formulated mine before seeing she had commented (ZOE I'M SURE IT'S LOVELY I ADORE YOU, YOU CUM-GUZZLING GUTTERSLUT)

@JJ -
1) Welcome to PH. Bitch, slut, whore, et cetera are often seen as endearments.
2) They are not in this case.
3) I maintain the right to believe that any woman who exploits the looks of her body (rather than the talent and skillz of her body as in sports and even like, professional prostitution) to entertain men are of low moral character. I'm not saying all are, I'm just saying by having a job that screams "I CAN ACT FUN AND WEAR A CROP TOP GUYS!!!!!!!!" you open yourself up for judgement. I'm of pretty low moral character myself, but still, keep it off mah hockey. I will judgejudgejudge with all my might.

J.J. from Kansas
July 14, 2010
76.92.160.195
Votes: +1
...

I haven't "missed the point", I simply don't have a problem with the marketing concept of pretty girls nor do I have a problem with the Penguins organization spinning it any way they want. I get fed bullshit everywhere. I admire the balls of whomever in the Penguins organization tried this hard to hide a concept this obvious. I also don't think this sends a message to female fans that this is what the Penguins expect out of you and your daughters, but like I said, I have no basis for empathy here. I respect my wife and my daughter, but I have no foggy clue what kind of societal pressures they're ever under to look, act, or think a certain way. That said, if my daughter wants to grow up a cheerleader, then power to her. If she wants to grow up a vacuous airhead, then there's gonna be problems in the from Kansas Household.

I'm sorry if I came off as sounding like I wanted you to accept this with a smiling face and a foot in the kitchen. I didn't mean for it to come across that way if it did.

You gals got your guns, I got mine. I appreciate the debate.

Rage
July 14, 2010
184.39.75.176
Votes: +0
...

Not that I have a horse in this race, BUT...in the dark recesses of my mind where reality is sometimes suspended for the things/people I love, every player on my favorite hockey team would play for much less than their market value to belong to such a storied, vaunted franchise and would conduct themselves at ALL times so as never to bring shame upon their teammates or their team or their city/fans...they would always come to each others rescue, and they would be great and virtuous stalwarts of their community and respective nations. My team's executives wouldn't just be trying to make a buck off of the fans; they would want only the best and brightest and most deserving people representing such a superior team and its fair city. They would want only what is best for the fans and the community at large, and likewise hire only the best, most skilled human at every level for such a wonderful team, its fans, and its home city...but then out of nowhere,"The Man" comes by and slaps me upside the head and says "Get your motherfucking ass back to work, fucker!"

Can you feel me, bitches?

Personally, I prefer the old guys doing shit like that, yinz know....bros before hos...but the Pens didn't axe me, so...Yeah...we can wail and gnash our teeth all we want...I don't think our moral indignation adds up to a popcorn fart in a whirlwind...just sayin'

You dirty hos are doin' the Lord's work, here...

lizziev
July 15, 2010
209.6.92.178
Votes: +0
...

Well, I'm late to this party, and I'm kind of surprised that I don't see anyone here with the same take I have on this (though, there a billion comments here, maybe I skimmed): I DON'T CARE if the Pens have "Ice Girls." I do agree with a lot of the talk about objectifying women, what it says to female fans, especially the young ones, blah blah blah. Totally. But lots of teams have had Ice Girls for years and the women and girls of the city are surviving. I've been to games in some of these arenas and the Ice Girls didn't ruin my time. I have bigger feminist fights to fight.

My issue here is the way the organization is handling this whole thing. If they want to have Ice Girls, HOLD AN AUDITION FOR ICE GIRLS. Yes, there would still be complaints, but do it above-board and you'd cut out at least part of the argument.

Did you see the recent column or blog or something from Rossi where he told fans they should "actually read" the Pens' press release and helpfully (read: condescendingly) bolded and underlined the part that said "girls and guys" and that they'd be "wearing track suits"? I found that so insulting, because those of us who ACTUALLY READ clearly saw that there are no auditions scheduled for men (yet?), and that the required audition outfits are decidedly skimpier than track suits.

The feeling I'm getting is that they're holding auditions for scantily-clad ladies and then throwing up their hands and saying "That's not what we're doing at all! It will be girls and guys in track suits!" You know what? Your fans are smarter than that, and we don't see a good-faith effort here to hire the crew you SAY you're looking for.

If the season starts and we find an Ice Crew of enthusiastic, attractive, fresh-faced, fully-dressed young men and women, YAY! But if that's the case, they could have avoided all this furor by doing two things:
1. Scheduling male auditions. Preferably at the same time as the women, as I see NOTHING in the job description that precludes unisex auditions. But if they do have reasons to audition genders separately, they could have at least scheduled both at different times and announced them both in the press release.
2. Cut out the "midriff-baring" language. They could have just said something like "wear athletic clothing that you can move around in," and half of the girls would have shown up in yoga pants and sports bras anyway, because that's probably what they wear to work out. And the others that show up in *gasp* t-shirts covering their abdomens, well, you can probably tell what their figure looks like fairly well anyway. Which doesn't even matter, because they're going to be wearing track suits... right?

Or, I guess, 3. If these are auditions for Ice Girls, JUST ADMIT THAT THEY'RE ICE GIRLS.

Annnnd I've clearly gone on too long. Sorry, everyone. It's just frustrating that this team (recently ranked #1 in fan relations! in all of sports!) seems to be so blatantly telling the fans one thing and doing another, in plain sight.

debrisslide
July 15, 2010
24.145.62.243
Votes: +0
...

Liz, I totally agree with you, and think you should forward your comment to the Pens as well. Just my two cents. I went and commented to Rob Rossi. . .that guy's always been pretty incredibly condescending.

EyeHeartCandy
August 07, 2010
65.23.106.18
Votes: +0
...

Ok, I already know I'm going to be attacked for this, and I already have on other sites. But I actually tried out for this first hand, and would like to share my opinion of the experience, and you can come to your own conclusions. I LOVE the Pens & play hockey, and I just thought it would be fun and decided to give it a shot. I certainly would not even be playing hockey if it wasn't for the Pens and I just wanted to badly be a part of this organization. I tried to keep my mouth shut the whole time while I read all the "Ice Slut" comments until I saw it for myself. I knew A LOT of people were openly opposed to this. I admit at first when I looked at the online application and saw the belly tops, french manicures, and leans figures, with skating ability and hockey knowledge LAST on the list, I considered backing out. I REALLY did not want to believe this was all about looks. I thought because I can skate and play hockey, I had a bit of an edge going into this. Plus I thought my interview at the audition went well, but despite all those things, I was cut the first day, so naturally I had to ponder what I did wrong, and what could I have done differently. But I figured, I'd just try out again next year when I'm an even better skater and move on from this. The coordinator made it clear you HAD to know how to skate and they wanted to be ready by Sept. 22 so they had NO time to putz around teaching girls to skate! But then I found out from another girl who went back to watch the finals in person that half the girls they picked had these stuck up skanky attitudes and couldn't even skate well! Now please, before everyone get their panties in a bunch, this is what SHE told me because she saw it first hand, so I'm not personally judging anyone or calling anyone a skank and I have no idea if the finalists could skate or not. I'm just relaying some information. I did not personally attend the finals. If what she told me is indeed true I really cant help but scratch my head and ponder just what the organizations motives really are after they pounded it into our heads that skating ability was a prerequisite to win this competition and I hear that they turned down many girls who were a lot more qualified skaters, not just myself. I am not too proud to admit that there were girls who were WAY better skaters than me who also didn't make the cut. If I was told that they had chosen all the top, excellent skaters I would be completely fine with this--I wouldn't have batted an eyelash! It really just makes it seem like skating ability and hockey knowledge really wasn't all that important and that it really is all about skanky eye candy for the men after all. I didn't want to believe it but that's what it's starting to look like. I just can't help but feel some of us have been lied to after we were told this competition was heavily based on skating ability and hockey knowledge and then I go to the Pens website and read "Fleury's like the best goaltender ever!" and that someone had to "study trivia" to know what years the Pens won their Cups! Seriously? I knew that when I was 7! I'm sorry, but I can't help but be a little irritated. But that's my opinion on this having experienced this personally. I know people are going to launch their attacks on me from behind their computers screens in 5...4...3...2...1, but I'm prepared for that.

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